00:00:03:07 - 00:00:16:23
Chris
Hello and welcome to the ending Body Burnout show. We are your host, Chris and Filly, co-founders of a multi winning functional medicine practice serving busy people with energy, mood and gut issues.
00:00:17:00 - 00:00:24:21
Filly
Well, business, addictive doing, people pleasing and perfectionism might be the norm. It's not normal and it's a major contributor to health issues.
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Chris
Our goal with this show is to give you a holistic root root cause approach to healing your body so that you don't have to continue doctor or diet hopping or popping a gazillion supplements hoping something might stick.
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Filly
So get ready to heal your body. Get your spark back deeply, connect with yourself, and step into the life of your dreams.
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Chris
Let's dive in.
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Filly
Hello, it's Filly here on the ending Body burnout show. Chris and I just had the most beautiful, inspiring, conversation with Melissa marsden, who is one of our clients inside the ending body burn burnout method. She's been working with us for, I think, almost a year now. She is a phenomenal woman. The woman that we interviewed today is very, not just very vastly different from the woman that entered our practice.
00:01:23:20 - 00:01:50:10
Filly
So Mel came to us, because she was feeling burnt out. She has a very and had and still does a very successful business and successfully in her profession, in her own right. But she had gone through, a many years of hustle and grinding or driven from deep, dysfunctional fear about herself being insignificant, which is what she uncovers inside the method.
00:01:50:12 - 00:02:20:11
Filly
And, you know, that led to patterns of saying yes all the time and putting others needs before herself. And we dive into all of that. But essentially, her body spoke to her and said, enough is enough. So this culminated after many years of running these patterns, some pretty significant trauma, traumatic events that occurred as well. And she just had her third baby two years ago, which was lovely with the pregnancy and breastfeeding.
00:02:20:11 - 00:02:50:11
Filly
But the moment she stopped breastfeeding, all her symptoms really flared up, including really severe bloating, constipation, weight gain increased and feeling anxious, overwhelmed and exhausted. So this is a beautiful conversation. What I love about Mel was even though she came in with her struggles and her challenges and her overwhelm, she had in her mind that 2024 was the year she was going to get well.
00:02:50:17 - 00:03:16:03
Filly
It was the year of fix, Mel. Now we use the word fix with little exclamation marks because, now she knows working with us, that, you know, she never was broken. But it really was the year that she resolved her health issues and herself as a person and really connected with herself. And so she went all in with the ending body burn out method.
00:03:16:05 - 00:03:43:11
Filly
Did all the protocols that I prescribed here, including this Seabury elemental diet, which is to take, no food and shakes. But she also straddled, other modalities, other practices to really make the most out of her healing journey and to get the most effective results. So we dive into all of that. She's now living with so much more spaciousness, so much more freedom within herself.
00:03:43:13 - 00:04:10:04
Filly
We tap into her business story as well. So she's an amazing woman. Actually, I read her bio in a sneaky, but yeah, she's phenomenal in in what she does in her profession, helping other corporate teams, create an environment that helps their team members thrive. But since doing her own healing, she's now integrating hearing healing journey to help other business women.
00:04:10:06 - 00:04:38:11
Filly
Create businesses that are in alignment, that have that to create work life balance in their life and also, essentially prevent and heal from burnout. So this is like a beautiful full circle story. Okay. So just a bit about Melissa. So Melissa marsden is a workplace stress strategist, business coach, author and podcast host dedicated to creating supportive and dynamic work environments.
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Filly
With over 12 years leading community, Mel guides corporate and government teams in designing workplaces that align with their values and enhance human potential. She is the author of The Next Workplace and Hers Work Life by Design. One of Australia's top work. Clare Workplace podcasts, Mel's approach blends strategy with heart, innovation with intuition and ambition with alignment. She also coaches women entrepreneurs to build businesses that reflect their values and lifestyle.
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Filly
Avoiding burnout. As a multi award winning entrepreneur and Telstra Business Women's Awards finalist, Mel's passion for business and innovation is matched by her commitment to empowering others. And I know that you feel that passion just radiates through you, whether you watching on YouTube, through the video or audio, if you're watching and listening to an audio podcast. So we'll dive into Mel Story now.
00:05:38:11 - 00:06:06:12
Filly
We'll actually in a moment, if you if you really resonate with Mel's story and, the work that she did inside the ending body burn out method is we holistically help to support her physical body and her metaphysical parts of her for full healing. The doors open to our ending body burn out method in May. So in the show notes, I'll pop in the show notes the link where you can put your name on the waitlist.
00:06:06:14 - 00:06:32:21
Filly
Benefit of having your name on the waitlist as you get, early access so you can save a spot. We only have limited spaces because our program does include one on one support. But also you'll get access to over $500 worth of early bird bonuses if you sign up. In the early bird period, and this is exclusive to the waitlist, is and also, if you don't want to wait to make any survey.
00:06:32:21 - 00:07:06:07
Filly
Keen to get started with the first step. At the end of the podcast, Mel talks about the connect the dots initial consult. So that is a first step that you can start with, before the doors open. And this is where you get to spend 90 minutes with me. I look over all of your case history, your health history, and really start connecting the dots as to what's going on, what's happening at a body systems level, where are the imbalances and what are the deeper root causes, and how can we move forward with some lab testing, to help start the healing journey.
00:07:06:07 - 00:07:25:05
Filly
So I'll pop the connect the Dots link down in the show notes as well. If you would like to book in for it, connect the dots and the doors, and my calendar for that is open. So I've got some spaces available. Maybe in March. I'm not sure if there'll be any in March by the time this goes live, but definitely there'll be some spots in April.
00:07:25:07 - 00:07:30:14
Filly
All right, let's get into today's episode.
00:07:30:16 - 00:07:55:05
Chris
All righty. Well, welcome to this episode of The Body Burnout Show. We have the lovely Mel Marsden, and Mel has worked with us in the past, and she's got a wonderful story. And I can't wait to ask some questions. Dig in here a little bit from Mel around, your journey, what you do for your work as well, for your business.
00:07:55:05 - 00:07:58:21
Chris
And, Yeah, I reckon we get this show on the road. Hey. Yeah.
00:07:58:22 - 00:08:17:12
Filly
Awesome. Let's dive in first. Just so people can get to know you, who you are, what you do. And we'll also dig into what you do inside of your business as well, because there's a lot of links with what you do in your business. And also, like preventing burnout and supporting people's health and longevity in performance.
00:08:17:14 - 00:08:46:02
Mel
Yeah, it is. So thanks for having me, guys. So to start with, I suppose I'm a mum. I have three kids, two year old, a six year old and a 14 year old. So quite a bit of a spread. And I run a workplace strategy, design advisory and change leadership studio called Community. So what all that means is we work with organisations to really just help them optimise their workplaces so that they can create really great employee experiences for their people.
00:08:46:06 - 00:09:09:12
Mel
So we kind of come in and help them unpack their strategy, their values, their purpose, where they're going as an organisation, how they want to work. And then we help them create an environment that tells their brand story, really connect with their people and communicate their their vision for their organisation through their space. And then we help their people, onboard back into that space.
00:09:09:12 - 00:09:20:14
Mel
So to learn how to use that space to work within that, how to work optimally in those environments and, and make the most out of it. So, yeah, that's what we do. And that's, that's a little bit, I think.
00:09:20:20 - 00:09:42:11
Filly
Yeah. That's so cool. So with the environment, because I always say you can't heal in a toxic environment, we'll also too, like from a workplace perspective, you can't work optimally if your environment is toxic. So when you talk about environment, are you talking about the physical like what it looks like, what it feels like, the ergonomics? What what specifically do you do there.
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Filly
Yeah.
00:09:42:18 - 00:10:09:00
Mel
So it's bit two fold. So we look at it from an environmental perspective. So yeah all of the materials finishes the way that it laid out, the way that people can move through the space. So from I suppose from a workplace wellness perspective, the things that we're being able to influence there is indoor air quality, because that really has a big impact on people's productivity, performance and their general wellness in general.
00:10:09:01 - 00:10:16:12
Filly
Can I just say before we hit record, Chris, that I haven't I just took my nose off and now I can't breathe is good. Saying like air is important.
00:10:16:12 - 00:10:37:10
Mel
People and very important and particularly in a lot of, commercial buildings, which is where I work in, is the air conditioning systems. And those built in those buildings can be, you know, tens of years old, decades old, and the quality of air that's coming in and the amount of fresh air that's coming into those environments, isn't always up to the great standard.
00:10:37:10 - 00:11:01:12
Mel
So being really mindful about how we look at that and how we support that thermal quality is also really important. So I don't know how many people have complained about the air conditioning being too hot or too cold. And everybody has a different expectation of what that looks like for their own body. So, looking at that and then also just acoustics is another huge one, you know, amount of noise that it's in the environment.
00:11:01:12 - 00:11:16:03
Mel
And no, don't need to talk about how many people hate open plan workplaces and the wrap that that's got, but just being really mindful about the way that noise moves and travels through a space and how that can impact on the users in that environment as well.
00:11:16:05 - 00:11:17:18
Mel
Yeah, that's really cool.
00:11:17:19 - 00:11:27:16
Filly
It's so it's things that I would imagine when you come into an organisation that they haven't put any thought into any of that at all, which is why they then. Hi.
00:11:27:18 - 00:11:47:03
Mel
Yeah. And a lot of the time they don't know that they need to hire us in the first place, because typically when an organisation gets to a point where they need a new workplace and the usual catalyst is the leases expiring, is that they just go and hire a designer or an architect, and they want to start putting pen to paper and drawing, you know, desks on a plan.
00:11:47:05 - 00:12:10:04
Mel
Whereas we take a very different approach as we come in and we really want to understand what the business is, who the people are, how they work, what are they trying to achieve, what's their purpose? What's their vision? Who are they as an organisation? What's their story so that we can really create an environment that responds and reflects them and their uniqueness and create an environment that really connects and attracts the right people to the organisation.
00:12:10:04 - 00:12:34:16
Mel
Because I think that's the other element that gets overlooked quite a lot. And, you know, you talk about toxic environments, is that the bit that I say missing is if we don't have that really strong connection to purpose, that why like, why am I here? Why am I working for this organisation? How is this fit with me? There's that lack of meaningful work in what we do, and I think that also contributes to people's stress and burnout.
00:12:34:17 - 00:12:56:10
Mel
In in a workplace environment. And the other pieces because of that, they're also missing that sense of belonging. And so they're kind of just adapting to fit in. And we do, you know, disc profiling and those sorts of things. And you talk about your adaptive state that's taking energy. It's draining you and people out. You know, often particularly in, you know, corporate workplaces.
00:12:56:12 - 00:13:07:23
Mel
Adapting their behaviour to fit in because that's what's expected of them, because the, the misalignment there in terms of who they've chosen to work for and how that fits with their own personal values and purpose.
00:13:08:01 - 00:13:09:02
Mel
Yeah.
00:13:09:04 - 00:13:18:10
Filly
I remember when you started working through our ending Body burnout method and you got to the part that was called Desired State, which is all about your vision, and you're one. You're like, I am all that pot.
00:13:18:12 - 00:13:21:10
Mel
That's good. Can you eat it?
00:13:21:10 - 00:13:36:02
Filly
Got that nailed? I love that too. So how? Like, what does that practically look like? In terms of mapping out the values and the vision and the purpose and then how that flows into the physical environment.
00:13:36:04 - 00:14:05:18
Mel
Yeah. So we start with leadership interviews, engagement with employee surveys to really kind of unpack, because what we often find too is what an organisation will say their purposes or their vision is, is very different when it's communicated from the words of the people. And it's about finding that thread and then really unpacking that. And then what we do with that is we reflect that back to the organisation, and that then becomes a platform for them to do some more internal culture work as well.
00:14:05:19 - 00:14:24:09
Mel
Because all of this goes hand in hand. A workplace is actually a cultural transformation. It's not just a new fit out or and construction project. That's the biggest shift that we're trying to get people to understand is that however you create, your environment is really going to lead your business. So being really clear about that, so getting that right at the beginning is really important.
00:14:24:10 - 00:14:43:11
Mel
And then once we understand that, you know, values are often things that we see written in documents or stuck on walls, what we going to look for is, well, what is the behaviour that we want to see sitting underneath that value? If I'm, you know, behaving in a way that is in alignment with that value, what am I going to be doing in this business?
00:14:43:11 - 00:15:11:12
Mel
And when we can understand that, then, then I can actually start to influence the space to create more of that behaviour. So if we want to see people collaborating and that becomes a strong value, you know, we really want people working together, sharing ideas. We need to create spaces that encourage that behaviour. So stand up environments, we, you know, bar stools and collaboration tools so that they can share documents on a screen or they can whiteboard things out and they can have more robust conversations.
00:15:11:12 - 00:15:32:07
Mel
So again, thinking about where these are positioned from an acoustics perspective to encourage that behaviour. So these are the ways that once we understand where the organisation is going, what they want to do and you know what's important to them, finding out those behaviours, we can then start to shape the workplace to really encourage more of that behaviour in those environments.
00:15:32:09 - 00:15:33:15
Mel
So cool.
00:15:33:17 - 00:15:38:11
Filly
Does this apply to virtual workspaces or not really.
00:15:38:12 - 00:16:08:04
Mel
Can the way that I like to look at it from a virtual perspective is, is a great book by Priya Parker called the Art of Gathering. And so she's basically setting up a like a mental framework around how we're going to come together and how we're going to gather. And I think those sorts of models are really important, because what we're doing is we're giving people the subconscious cues around what's okay and what's not okay in terms of how we want you to show up and how we want you to contribute and how you want people to behave in these spaces.
00:16:08:04 - 00:16:12:16
Mel
So I think that's where it comes into play from a virtual perspective as well.
00:16:12:21 - 00:16:21:04
Filly
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. Have you seen a link with burnout and pull set ups?
00:16:21:05 - 00:16:39:07
Mel
It's a bit difficult to kind of get into that in the depths of that. But, you know, we definitely see people who are experiencing, you know, back injuries and pains because economics aren't set out great. People going on stress leave because of, you know, sick building syndrome and poor air quality. So there's a direct correlation there.
00:16:39:07 - 00:17:15:16
Mel
And that's why we've got organisations such as Greenstar Building Council. You've also got, you know, well, workplaces in the world building standards. So they are organisations that are creating frameworks on how we can create spaces that are much healthier for our people to be in. And the things that are probably, say, the most of where we get a lot of, people not really performing well or not feeling well in the workplace is because they haven't got a variety of spaces to be able to support all of the different types of needs that they have when they're at work.
00:17:15:18 - 00:17:35:05
Mel
I talk about it typically, you've got really like three typologies in an office. You've got an office, a meeting room and a workstation and many, many organisations. When I go in there, I've only got these three options for people. But we need so much more than that. We need places where we can decompress. We need places where we can relax.
00:17:35:05 - 00:17:53:11
Mel
We need places where we can socialise and connect. You know, I've been into organisations and they go, oh, we don't need a kitchen or, you know, a two point place for our staff. They just eat at their desk. And so like all of these little things are giving people subconscious cues around what we want you to do when you get here.
00:17:53:11 - 00:18:20:19
Mel
And even the way that you move and flow through a space. This sequence of events that you go through when you enter an environment, all of that is setting up your subconscious scaffolding around how you are expected to show up and perform and behave and operate in these spaces. So, so many things that can influence the way that we, you know, feel in the space and therefore the way that we, you know, want to do things.
00:18:20:21 - 00:18:45:02
Filly
It's around safety, too, like we have been using the word subconscious a lot, which we have a shared language with that as well. In our practice. And so if it's like there's no kitchen, okay, where do I eat at my desk. So therefore it's actually not even safe to eat. It's not safe to ate. It's not safe to have that time out to go and rest and digest and eat the food and then come back to work.
00:18:45:04 - 00:18:47:04
Filly
Yeah, that's super interesting.
00:18:47:06 - 00:19:08:13
Mel
Yeah, it's interesting you say it like that because that's absolutely true. And because it also, you know, whether or not there is a culture of of taking that time out to take lunch or, you know, to look after yourself when you're at work to exercise, it's all those little mindset pieces about, you know, is it okay for me to do those things here or not?
00:19:08:15 - 00:19:37:13
Mel
And it's all cued by the environment. And so one of the things in the world building standard is that they actually look at what kind of healthy eating options are actually around the location of the building and what, fitness amenities and wellbeing amenities. In and around the building. So again, giving those people that, that access to it in an easily accessible way, but also then that permission piece as well.
00:19:37:13 - 00:19:37:20
Mel
Yeah.
00:19:37:20 - 00:19:42:09
Filly
Like it's invited here and it's safe to do that here. Safe to go to the toilet. There's a toilet.
00:19:42:09 - 00:19:44:09
Mel
You know, building.
00:19:44:11 - 00:20:03:09
Chris
I remember working for Australia Post before we got married. Oh no, sorry. Just after we got married in Strawberry Hills in Sydney and, and the gym, the corporate gym was encouraged to be used, however, not during work hours and it was locked after hours.
00:20:03:15 - 00:20:07:18
Mel
And that's what makes it so weird.
00:20:07:18 - 00:20:09:19
Chris
Yeah, yeah, it was on those days.
00:20:09:21 - 00:20:10:20
Mel
It was before work.
00:20:10:22 - 00:20:11:15
Chris
I never did.
00:20:11:20 - 00:20:14:01
Mel
Oh my goodness. Lunchtime probably.
00:20:14:02 - 00:20:22:02
Chris
Yeah. It was really crazy. It was. And it was decent. But they put a lot of, you know, a decent amount of taxpayer money into it.
00:20:22:04 - 00:20:33:08
Filly
Well that's interesting too. It's like, is that just for face like, is that really to encourage a culture or is it just to be like, we have a gym come and work here, but you can't use it?
00:20:33:10 - 00:20:34:08
Mel
Yeah.
00:20:34:10 - 00:20:36:01
Mel
It's a hook. But yeah.
00:20:36:01 - 00:20:38:04
Mel
It's not pulling through. Yeah.
00:20:38:06 - 00:20:48:04
Filly
Okay. Let's switch gears. So you have been on a massive journey this last. How long has it been? Yeah, nine months over.
00:20:48:04 - 00:20:48:12
Mel
Yeah.
00:20:48:13 - 00:21:14:03
Filly
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And we'll circle back to like, how this is fed into your business at the end as well because I think just I've just loved watching your journey, not just your health and healing journey, but how it's just a ripple into every facet of your life in terms of the important areas. So you, can we can we go back to when your body started showing signs of body burnout and maybe that might even be like right.
00:21:14:03 - 00:21:15:07
Mel
Back as a kid or, you know.
00:21:15:08 - 00:21:21:06
Filly
Wherever it wherever feels fitting to to start unfolding your own health journey story.
00:21:21:08 - 00:21:42:16
Mel
Yeah. Okay. Well, I'd probably say like the main thing, the warning bells and the alarm started going off probably about two years ago. And I was just experiencing some really bad stomach issues, like constant cramping, bloating, and that was kind of like the first bit that I was going on. This is something not entirely right here.
00:21:42:18 - 00:22:07:17
Mel
And as that progressed, I started to get, I was gaining weight and I just was feeling really crappy. And what had happened is I had a baby in 2022. In May, a little boy and I had been breastfeeding him for nine months. And when I stopped breastfeeding him, I just kind of started to gain or lose weight.
00:22:07:17 - 00:22:29:22
Mel
So while I'm breastfeeding, pregnancy and breastfeeding are like my two favourite things to me. Because I feel so much energy and when I'm breastfeeding, like the weight just disappears and I'm like super skinny and it's amazing. And then he had, dairy intolerance. So I was dairy free for sort of the nine months that I was breastfeeding him.
00:22:30:00 - 00:22:43:14
Mel
And then once I sort of stopped that and I started eating, like all the food again, I started to get this really bad sort of stomach stuff. And I went to the doctor and I said, all, you know, there's nothing wrong with you, you're fine. Or if you go home. And then another doctor said to me, I wasn't.
00:22:43:14 - 00:23:10:09
Mel
It really cool how, you know, when you're breastfeeding you have these microbiomes and your hormones work this way, he said. It's a real shame we can't replicate that. But, you know, I if you go home, you go, yeah. And so, yeah, it was just a real journey there and only through working with you guys and really sort of digging back in and thinking about this like I have had gut issues in gut problems and sort of constipation issues since I was a young child.
00:23:10:11 - 00:23:20:00
Mel
And it's going to flare up and down throughout all different parts of my life. And I've never really thought anything of it, because for me, that was just that's normal. That's how things were.
00:23:20:02 - 00:23:20:09
Mel
Yeah.
00:23:20:12 - 00:23:42:19
Mel
And then, yeah, we kind of got to that point there. And, you know, throughout that period of time too, I've also got endometriosis and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, underactive thyroid. So I've always had like these sorts of autoimmune type things that have been cropping up and popping up throughout my life. And it was about ten years ago.
00:23:42:19 - 00:24:09:18
Mel
I also got a pretty nasty parasite and had to go on a really harsh round of antibiotics, and I think that completely knocked my entire gut health system. I was diagnosed with IBS after that, and then, you know, followed the Fodmap diet for a while and had sort of different amounts of success with that. But yeah, so and then that all kind of led me to that point where I was just completely overwhelmed.
00:24:09:20 - 00:24:29:14
Mel
I was emotional all the time. I had like, is fog? I just felt like it's deep, you know? And in hindsight, I may have even been possibly in the state of depression. Like it just all felt really hard and everything just felt a lot. Yeah. And I was talking to a friend and she said, oh my God, I've been doing the same thing.
00:24:29:14 - 00:24:36:00
Mel
And I, you know, I, I've been put on to this person. You need to go on touchy feely. And that's how we started.
00:24:36:00 - 00:24:38:06
Mel
Out here together. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:38:07 - 00:24:44:23
Filly
I think that was a little triangle with Doctor Ali as well. Yeah. He she's been on our podcast and I've been on has and.
00:24:44:23 - 00:24:46:00
Mel
Yeah.
00:24:46:02 - 00:24:57:10
Mel
Yeah. So they all said you could have go to which is really you know, I'm like, okay, that's two people to tell me now. So here we are. And then that was November 23rd. Yeah. For Connect the Dots calls. Yeah.
00:24:57:13 - 00:25:19:22
Filly
Yeah. I do remember when we first started working with you and yeah, I would, I mean, whether it was clinical depression or not, it's kind of chalk and cheese to like the person that I'm talking to now. Very different to the woman that came who you know, like you, you had a lot of things going right for you in terms of business and successful woman and.
00:25:19:23 - 00:25:22:20
Mel
Also,
00:25:22:22 - 00:25:33:19
Filly
But yeah, that was something inside of you that was just like, my Body is clearly speaking to me and I don't know why, and I need help. And this is actually really crappy feeling like this right now.
00:25:33:21 - 00:25:42:03
Mel
Yeah, it was really shitty. Yeah. And I was probably feeling like that for a few years, to be honest.
00:25:42:05 - 00:25:43:15
Mel
00:25:43:17 - 00:26:07:01
Mel
And I just didn't really. And I think it got worse. And that feeling was about just like anything that was deeper than surface level emotion. I would be in tears like, it just there wasn't that capacity to be able to hold any of that. It just kept coming up and out all the time. And, you know, if you ask my husband, I was cranky and.
00:26:07:03 - 00:26:08:09
Filly
Dragon mom Dragon like.
00:26:08:10 - 00:26:09:15
Mel
Yeah, Dragon mommy yelled.
00:26:09:15 - 00:26:11:01
Mel
At the kids all the time like, I did.
00:26:11:01 - 00:26:14:04
Mel
All of that. I still yell at them sometimes, but nowhere near as much.
00:26:14:04 - 00:26:16:08
Mel
But that is allowed. You know, it's.
00:26:16:10 - 00:26:22:22
Mel
Yeah, I was just I just didn't have any capacity, and was just feeling like this overwhelm a lot of the time.
00:26:22:22 - 00:26:48:09
Filly
Yeah. Okay. So the first step when we start digging in to like, what's going on is let's look at the body systems first and let's uncover what's happening at our body systems level. Because you can't have symptoms, whether it's physical or even like mental emotional without there being some sort of physiological imbalance. So are you happy to share what showed up on your lab tests and how you felt and how you made sense of it all?
00:26:48:11 - 00:26:53:14
Mel
Yeah, so. Well, it took me a while to actually do the lab test. To be honest, I.
00:26:53:14 - 00:26:56:02
Mel
Actually didn't think I'd be aware before.
00:26:56:02 - 00:26:57:14
Mel
I did the tests.
00:26:57:16 - 00:26:59:08
Mel
And can you share why?
00:26:59:08 - 00:27:09:17
Filly
Because there's lots of other clients, by the way, who might start the journey. Then it's like, oh my gosh, three months later, I still got these test kits sitting there. What what would what was happening?
00:27:09:19 - 00:27:25:03
Mel
It was Christmas, and you wanted me to do three different types of tests, and they required me to do three different types of eating protocols beforehand and donate this and donate that and stuff for this and not for that. And I was just like, my.
00:27:25:05 - 00:27:28:02
Mel
Coffee is two days. And,
00:27:28:04 - 00:27:48:21
Mel
My brain just could not compute it. And in the end, I actually did the three tests at different times because I originally I was going to try and do all three at the same like period, like I'll do them all in the one day, finding a whole day that I could stay at home and not be interrupted to do, particularly the breath test.
00:27:48:21 - 00:28:10:19
Mel
Like, because you have to do it at the increments. It just it was my brain just couldn't compete it like I was in that deeper sense, an overwhelm that I just couldn't figure out what I needed to do to do it properly. And that was my main concern. I didn't want to stuff it up like I wanted to do it right, and I didn't want to have accidentally eaten something that would then skew the results.
00:28:10:21 - 00:28:30:10
Mel
So that perfectionism tendency was kicking in there to make sure everything was good. And I think I was actually reflecting on this and I think, you know, that whole idea of, well, everything else became before me. And so I was prioritising all these other things before I actually prioritised getting these tests done and therefore prioritising myself.
00:28:30:10 - 00:28:48:11
Mel
So that was what was really sitting behind it. And what is hilarious now, though, is that what I had to do to prepare for those tests in terms of change of diet and everything, that's my everyday lifestyle now.
00:28:48:13 - 00:28:51:07
Mel
It's like, that's just how I am now.
00:28:51:09 - 00:29:08:16
Filly
That's cool though. There's three things in that and I'm going to share this in cases, whether that clients who work with also someone else who might be like having a lab test their city. So it's like break it down into you don't have to do everything all at once. What else did you say, though? Something else.
00:29:08:18 - 00:29:09:17
Mel
That doing it properly.
00:29:09:19 - 00:29:17:21
Filly
Oh, the doing it properly. The perfectionism. So here's a good thing is that if you do it wrong, the lab test will flag it and they'll just send out another lab kit.
00:29:17:23 - 00:29:18:12
Mel
Oh.
00:29:18:13 - 00:29:19:18
Mel
That'd be nice to know.
00:29:20:00 - 00:29:25:00
Mel
That would have been nice. Oh, my God, I hate it, right? Yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
00:29:25:02 - 00:29:49:21
Filly
Or sometimes there might be something like that and it's like, just ask, like I had a graph. Is that okay? And usually I will say, like, if it was one little graph, it will be fine. So it's those perfectionism tendencies that can prevent us from doing the thing. And then the big one was prioritising everyone else that yourself, which was part of the whole healing journey, which we'll dig into as well.
00:29:49:23 - 00:29:54:08
Filly
Okay. So we kind of segue. So do you remember what showed up on your lab tests?
00:29:54:10 - 00:29:55:19
Mel
Yes.
00:29:55:21 - 00:30:17:00
Mel
So adrenal fatigue, which was really no surprise. It was just kind of more validation. Yeah. What was interesting from that, though, from my perspective, is like how depleted I actually was. Like, I just thought it had cortisol in it deep down, but like it was the DHEA was gone as well. Like everything was just flat lining.
00:30:17:02 - 00:30:21:00
Mel
And then you actually said to me, oh, you're in stage three and you're like, no, no, no, we're going to go back and we're going to say stage.
00:30:21:00 - 00:30:22:13
Mel
Two, because if you say so, you.
00:30:22:13 - 00:30:28:19
Mel
Shouldn't be getting out of bed. And I'm like, that's that willpower kicking in. Like I can either I can just push through this stuff, like.
00:30:28:21 - 00:30:30:04
Mel
Here we go.
00:30:30:06 - 00:30:49:18
Filly
So then sometimes having the lab actually it's like validating, but it's also like, oh, and and if I continue pushing like where else can it go? Like it can continue getting worse, but then at some point you there is no willpower left anymore in the body. Will will say it for you.
00:30:49:20 - 00:31:04:06
Mel
Yeah. And I think that was the thing for me. Like I had been going and going, going and I'd seen these other people going, oh, you know, I've got adrenal fatigue or I've ended up in hospital with exhaustion. I've done it. I'm like, well, my body hasn't collapsed on me yet. Like there must be more in the tank.
00:31:04:06 - 00:31:25:04
Mel
Like I was like, I didn't I know it's ridiculous, but I'm just like, I didn't have this permission to be able to slow down or stop or do things differently because I didn't see a good enough reason, like there was not enough evidence for me to say that I couldn't keep doing things the way that I was doing them.
00:31:25:04 - 00:31:43:01
Mel
Like, yeah, I knew that I was tired, I knew that I was exhausted, but there just didn't seem to be this raised in like my body was, hadn't given up. So like, is it just me? Like so it was that in itself also became like that permission pace. It's like and again, this is well we'll get to this.
00:31:43:01 - 00:31:55:23
Mel
But it's kind of like it was. Someone else had said to me, I you can do this now. And then I had an I had an excuse, I had a reason to be able to say to my husband, I can't do that. I'm too tired and I have adrenal fatigue.
00:31:56:01 - 00:31:58:06
Filly
I have a label now.
00:31:58:08 - 00:32:01:04
Mel
I can use this. Yeah, yeah, that.
00:32:01:04 - 00:32:02:16
Mel
Was that was a big.
00:32:02:18 - 00:32:04:08
Mel
Big one. Yeah.
00:32:04:10 - 00:32:19:22
Mel
The other things that showed up. So I had low dopamine, low serotonin. So, you know, my brain wasn't functioning, which explains the brain fog, which made a lot of sense, is just like I was walking around in this daze.
00:32:20:00 - 00:32:20:04
Mel
The.
00:32:20:04 - 00:32:27:15
Filly
Overwhelm as well. Like, your body's stuck in fight flight. So therefore, everything that's triggering everything is scary. Everything is hard.
00:32:27:17 - 00:32:32:02
Mel
Yeah. And you've actually got a diagram in, in the program that.
00:32:32:04 - 00:32:33:13
Mel
Looks at your.
00:32:33:15 - 00:32:56:09
Mel
The way that you, your stress levels go in that fight or flight and how you mean to sort of peak up and then come down again and how I just basically got stuck up the top and I was just constantly bouncing and this really narrowing kind of realm, but in overwhelm and overstressed all the time. So everything triggered me, and I couldn't get out of that space.
00:32:56:09 - 00:33:07:16
Mel
And no amount of relaxation or whatever, you know, yoga or whatever I was doing was just not enough to be able to get me back into that parasympathetic state. Like I could not access it.
00:33:07:21 - 00:33:08:20
Mel
00:33:08:23 - 00:33:30:20
Mel
So that was a big one. And I found that really difficult because I was trying like I was saying acupuncturist and I was going to yoga and, you know, I hadn't I wasn't meditating this time, but I was, doing, you know, I had a coach and all these sorts of things trying to mentally work my way out of this.
00:33:30:20 - 00:33:32:22
Mel
And I think that was another big thing.
00:33:33:00 - 00:33:33:04
Mel
Yeah.
00:33:33:04 - 00:33:34:12
Mel
Sorry. I'm jumping all over the face.
00:33:34:14 - 00:33:45:19
Filly
No, no, no, this is awesome. It's good because we'll add everything this thread together. So then there was also the Cebu small intestinal bacterial Overgrowth that showed up.
00:33:45:21 - 00:34:02:10
Mel
Which was the first thing that I actually went to you for because it was just the gut pain was horrendous. And I had I got referred on to say, gastroenterology entomologist, and they did an endoscopy and a colonoscopy and basically sent me home. So there's nothing wrong with you. It's all in your head.
00:34:02:12 - 00:34:05:13
Mel
Yeah, that's and yeah, to a point.
00:34:05:13 - 00:34:28:15
Mel
It was all in my head. But it their approach did not help. It was not a helpful directive. And the conversation I actually had with them was that Sibo didn't exist. So I was wasting my time and money going down that path. And then so when we got the diagnosis back to say, yes, you do have Sibo and it was like this very high level of methane in my system.
00:34:28:17 - 00:34:49:21
Mel
Oh well, no wonder. And what was really surprising for me was how high that was. And I hadn't eaten because of course you fast for that, for that test. And to see that level of, you know, reaction from my body was quite, surprising. Yeah. Well, if that's what's happening when there's nothing in there, imagine what is happening when I'm eating something.
00:34:50:00 - 00:34:51:01
Mel
Yeah.
00:34:51:03 - 00:34:58:16
Mel
So yeah, that was and that kind of then I think all of these things were quite validating because you're in a way you're going, okay, it's not me. I'm not completely crazy. Like.
00:34:58:18 - 00:35:00:03
Filly
You're not just making it up.
00:35:00:05 - 00:35:02:20
Mel
I'm not making it up. Yeah, it's it's actually there.
00:35:03:02 - 00:35:04:02
Mel
Yeah.
00:35:04:04 - 00:35:30:16
Mel
So yeah. And then off the back of that we also found the low microbiome. So yeah, I didn't have really good gut health as a result of, you know, probably stress and eating poorly. And the antibiotics and stuff years earlier. So that was all contributing. And then the other thing that we found was that my, the stage one liver function wasn't, performing the way it should be as well.
00:35:30:16 - 00:35:39:15
Mel
So it wasn't, detoxing and cleansing the way that it should be. And that was probably contributing back to everything else, because it was just dumping all this stuff back into my system.
00:35:39:15 - 00:36:02:07
Filly
Yeah, yeah. And along with that to, poor bile production, which is often connected to Sibo. So if you're not producing bile and it's not squirting into the gut effectively, then essentially bile helps to break down favourites. Also, a natural antibiotic. So then that allows that bacteria to travel off and stay camp. When you eat your food, it ferments in the wrong place.
00:36:02:07 - 00:36:05:15
Filly
And it's like number one symptom is to be bloating.
00:36:05:17 - 00:36:06:23
Mel
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:07:01 - 00:36:28:08
Filly
Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Sorry. Well, it's I think like in terms of the physical support, I think the, the big focus for you or maybe you're like the hardest, most challenging thing was around working on the Sibo while also working on the body body systems because it's all connected. I think there's like some key learnings in that.
00:36:28:09 - 00:36:33:10
Filly
In your journey through treating Stevo, are you happy to share?
00:36:33:12 - 00:36:38:19
Mel
Yeah, I'm happy to share. Okay. So what did that look like for you? Yeah.
00:36:38:21 - 00:36:58:02
Mel
So we we did the adrenal first support first because as you said, the can't do it can't do any healing if my adrenals weren't functioning. So we spent a bit of time sort of getting them back on track with supplements and bits and pieces. Also changing the diet, so did the adrenal diet, which pretty much is my life now.
00:36:58:04 - 00:37:07:21
Mel
Which, you know, so that that's worked out pretty well. Yeah. And then we did the shakes. So two weeks of living on shakes and it's called.
00:37:07:21 - 00:37:09:18
Filly
The Elemental Diet.
00:37:09:20 - 00:37:11:22
Mel
Yes. Now you say.
00:37:12:00 - 00:37:12:16
Filly
Formulated.
00:37:12:16 - 00:37:17:16
Mel
Shakes. You did awesome. I did all of it.
00:37:17:18 - 00:37:21:21
Mel
Again. Had to do it. I had to do it right. Committing to this.
00:37:21:23 - 00:37:23:00
Mel
00:37:23:02 - 00:37:30:06
Mel
And I switched between the pre formulated elemental shake and like the made at home stuff as well. So that I had a bit of variety.
00:37:30:12 - 00:37:31:15
Mel
Yeah.
00:37:31:16 - 00:37:44:16
Mel
It's it's a tricky thing. I tried all three flavours of the elemental, and I thought the charcoal was the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted in my life. And when I was a guy who originally drank, end up throwing out that one.
00:37:44:16 - 00:37:47:03
Mel
Oh, no. Yeah, the chocolate.
00:37:47:07 - 00:37:52:08
Filly
Couldn't even reuse it later for, like, just in a smoothie. It's a bit of a protein boost. Not okay.
00:37:52:12 - 00:37:54:05
Mel
You know, I, I, I like that instant.
00:37:54:05 - 00:37:56:21
Mel
Those things get near you. It's just like gut content.
00:37:56:22 - 00:38:00:15
Filly
That's so funny because some people have said tropical is my favourite. The other two.
00:38:00:15 - 00:38:04:01
Mel
Agrees. Oh, no.
00:38:04:03 - 00:38:26:12
Mel
You know, that was disgusting. Whereas the I made version was quite good because it had the honey and the coconut oil like the MCT oil and stuff in it. So yeah, it was it was palatable. So I did that for the two weeks and felt incredible. At the end of that, all the bloating had gone, like, I'd felt lighter as well.
00:38:26:14 - 00:38:45:00
Mel
Like I had lost some weight through that process as well. But it was more about just I felt my system felt clean and it felt like everything and kind of moved the way I needed to. So that was great. And I, my, you know, the brain fog lifted and I was a lot clearer. The emotional stuff had gone.
00:38:45:00 - 00:39:00:12
Mel
I was a lot more even tempered. Things were still going a lot better. So a huge, huge shift there. But, a couple of months later, been through a bit of a stressful period, had a few things that didn't quite go the way that I hoped them to go, and.
00:39:00:14 - 00:39:03:14
Mel
Voila, bam! Back.
00:39:03:16 - 00:39:25:17
Mel
So we retested and we found that, yes, it was back, but it wasn't as high as it was the first time around. So we did another seven days on the Elemental Diet then, and I only did the chocolate for the whole seven days. And I think that was enough to kind of make it, better.
00:39:25:19 - 00:39:26:01
Mel
Yeah.
00:39:26:07 - 00:39:44:08
Mel
I'm still not convinced it's gone completely, like, it's. I think it sort of flutters in and out that one. So we're just exploring other ways to kind of get that under control now. So, yeah, as you know, I started trying colonics to see if that's going to help. But yeah, it's an interesting one, that one.
00:39:44:09 - 00:40:04:12
Filly
I think the like loss consult session, which was just last week, I think there was some learnings to that. It's like, oh, I can see like there's a big stress factor in this now. So when it came, when it flared back up the big time, like a few months later, there was some actual quite intense stress happening around that time.
00:40:04:14 - 00:40:12:11
Filly
Yeah. But then, what you said to me too, it's like, oh, I notice, you know, if I'm, if I'm starting to feel the subtle signs of, like.
00:40:12:11 - 00:40:13:22
Mel
Anger towards the kids.
00:40:13:22 - 00:40:41:20
Filly
Or, you know, whatever it might be, the gut will also communicate to me. So so the way that I think about that as well, it's like, yeah, you know what? Like we could run a test and actually see see if I still there or not. Like even if it is even if it is kind of like a physiological thing that it's kind of like, you know what, I just feel my little head every now and then, when you listen, then it doesn't eventuate into something bigger.
00:40:41:22 - 00:40:54:21
Filly
And so it then becomes this beautiful communication pathway that it's like it's actually like it's not specifically the Cibo. It's actually just a way that your body and unconscious mind is communicating to you to get your attention.
00:40:54:23 - 00:41:02:00
Mel
It's just reminding me to calm down and take a breath and say, I take a rest and maybe look after.
00:41:02:00 - 00:41:03:04
Mel
Myself a little bit better.
00:41:03:04 - 00:41:20:19
Mel
Or, you know, maybe those, you know, you've cracked, of course, a little bit with some of the food choices and things like that. So yeah, I think there's a yeah, it's definitely a communication tool now. And one of the things that I've sort of been, because I've been writing a lot more into it as well, just to see what else is going on.
00:41:20:19 - 00:41:46:08
Mel
And this idea that our, you know, our intestines and our stomach and everything, digesting ideas and emotions and things as well, it's not just digesting food. So what else am I overloading my system with in terms of emotion and other things that I'm not effectively clearing? And allowing it to kind of shift and move from my body.
00:41:46:08 - 00:42:03:17
Mel
So, yeah, I think there's a few different ways that you can kind of look at it and see where things are coming from. And particularly like stress is just really another emotion. So how is how am I finding other ways to kind of manage that and support that so that that whole load isn't on my on my stomach.
00:42:03:19 - 00:42:04:22
Mel
Yeah. My gut.
00:42:05:00 - 00:42:12:15
Filly
Yeah, I love it. Did you want to add anything Chris before we moving on here Chris is like got a lot of notes.
00:42:12:16 - 00:42:13:14
Mel
Notes okay.
00:42:13:15 - 00:42:14:08
Filly
He's got night.
00:42:14:09 - 00:42:39:09
Chris
I just have okay. Well, just in summary, I'm just I'm just following your your story life happens somewhere along the line. You become aware. Symptoms. Symptoms are popping up here and there. And then you try, you give it a crack, you either try and willpower it out. Push along. I'm not dead yet. Keep going. I haven't completely broken down.
00:42:39:14 - 00:43:01:02
Chris
I'm not bedridden, you know, and you give it a crack, you try, And then you. Then you go. Alright, well, let me try the doctor route. Now, you normally say CBD doesn't exist, blah blah, blah, blah blah, but you don't feel right. You don't feel normal, you don't feel good. So you try and find other options. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:43:01:04 - 00:43:13:14
Chris
And then I think underneath all of that, there's there's still these patterns, there's these programs and these stories that you're telling yourself. And I think that's where we're up to right now. It's like just to to.
00:43:13:15 - 00:43:33:07
Filly
Go into the physical, the deeper what we call the root root cause. Yeah. So so we now ending Body burnout method. We're working on the physical body systems. But on the other side you can't separate the mind in the body. It's like it's actually impossible. And so why wouldn't it be a lovely thing to do to just heal both at the same time?
00:43:33:07 - 00:43:58:21
Filly
Because they're both communicating with each other and they're both affecting each other. So on the metaphysical side of things or the mind, we have a part of the program called spark, which is really getting to the what's the deepest root cause happening here? And it and we take our clients through the journey of really getting to a deep root cause, unconscious core belief, first and foremost, because that's essentially the machine that's driving everything.
00:43:58:23 - 00:44:13:19
Filly
And then looking at, you know, past events and trauma and like, repressed emotion and uncovering, rewiring, reprogramming, clearing all of that. What was your experience? What did you discover about yourself?
00:44:13:21 - 00:44:36:14
Mel
Oh. Okay. So it was really quite interesting, that whole process, because there was activities and things that you got to to do that really started making me think about things from a different perspective. But I also think there was some conversations that we had that helped me realise that the way that I wanted to do things differently was okay.
00:44:36:16 - 00:45:09:14
Mel
And so one of the biggest thing is, you know, we go through and my deepest core belief was that I'm insignificant, that, you know, I don't matter. And so what that had done for me in terms of how that showed up for me in my life was that I would overwork, I would people place, I would do everything for everybody in order to get that external validation, to prove that I was significant and that I did matter, and that I was valuable and people did need me.
00:45:09:14 - 00:45:34:06
Mel
And so I think that, you know, in you talk about it, it's always serving you. And that was serving me like I was getting busting my butt running a business success, full career, you know, really successful business of, you know, working with great clients, delivering for them, but always over delivering, always saying yes, feeling really bad. If I had to say no because it was completely out of my control.
00:45:34:06 - 00:45:50:14
Mel
Like, yeah, feeling responsible was a big one for me, is like, I take on that sense of responsibility that I've got to deliver on. You know, if I say I'm going to do something, I've got to do it. So but I would never say no. I was always yes. Yeah. And so that was a really big thing for me.
00:45:50:14 - 00:46:07:17
Mel
And never putting or saying, hey, I need this, to be able to just. Yeah, constantly, always over serving and over doing in order to get that validation that I was significant and. Yeah. Yeah. So that was always that was there.
00:46:07:19 - 00:46:12:14
Filly
Which, which actually circles back to how you started off talking about the lab tests. It's like,
00:46:12:16 - 00:46:13:15
Mel
Took a while to do.
00:46:13:15 - 00:46:35:20
Filly
It. You know, underneath all of that was I was prioritising everyone else and not myself. And so these simple little thing like these deeper beliefs will ripple into every facet of life, including, oh, it's really weird that I've got this test kit sitting here. Why haven't I done it yet? But even that alone to whatever. What was the thing that it's just like.
00:46:35:20 - 00:46:42:22
Filly
All right, just going to flame and get these lab tests done. Like, was this something where the pain just got high enough that it's, like, going to do it now?
00:46:43:00 - 00:46:46:14
Mel
I don't know if it was the pain I just got sick of looking at because I was sitting right here beside me.
00:46:46:20 - 00:46:47:07
Mel
Dominating.
00:46:47:07 - 00:47:00:07
Mel
That space on my desk, and I. I blocked it out in my diary. And that was the thing that I too, I had to look ahead that far to be able to go, okay, I can spend this whole block of time that I haven't got to do something with the kids. I haven't got meetings, I haven't got this.
00:47:00:07 - 00:47:27:16
Mel
I've got something else. That's a deadline delivered. I can carve this time out for myself and do it. And yeah, that's just how long it took me to eventually get that together. And then work through it. And because I then broke it down, it's like, I'm going to do this three times now. So, yeah. And just like I said earlier, just like the capacity in my brain to be able to read the instructions and understand them all separately, that was just too much for my brain to handle that.
00:47:27:18 - 00:47:30:05
Mel
Yeah. Did you when?
00:47:30:07 - 00:47:34:21
Chris
Well, that's a pain. It's a it's a pain to keep looking at the damn thing.
00:47:34:23 - 00:47:35:20
Mel
I know, it's like.
00:47:35:22 - 00:47:37:22
Filly
Oh, yeah. Pain. There's a pain there.
00:47:38:00 - 00:47:59:22
Chris
That could be a tip for for somebody whose career is around organisation. And I don't know, you've not said this word but neatness, you know, and tidiness having a having a purpose and a place for everything, slapping some sort of ugly lab test in the in the flame, in front and centre in the wrong spot might be a strategy for somebody.
00:48:00:00 - 00:48:00:14
Mel
That would work.
00:48:00:16 - 00:48:07:20
Chris
Yeah. Yes. You slap it in the middle of the kitchen counter and don't touch it.
00:48:07:22 - 00:48:10:11
Mel
Yeah, some other.
00:48:10:13 - 00:48:11:08
Mel
00:48:11:18 - 00:48:37:01
Filly
But also to that like that, then that decision is like you're starting to collect evidence, whether you know, consciously or not. But someone will start collecting evidence that's like, you know what I do that a like, can I do matter enough to do this thing and to then do these shakes and then, oh, to actually peer into the, the box of worms that, you know, maybe I do or don't want to do, but I know that's the most loving and kind thing I can do for myself.
00:48:37:03 - 00:49:11:23
Filly
So every time you make a choice, like in every time you say yes, yes to yourself, like in that in the past, it's like, it's like getting you to where you want to be. So what did it look like for you in terms of rewiring? Reprogramming. And I know that you you're actually someone. It's very rare that I can say someone kind of like straddle and hold space for quite a few different modalities without it feeling more overwhelmed and distracting, like you actually say, you worked with us, but you were doing other stuff.
00:49:11:23 - 00:49:18:09
Filly
You were almost like, If I'm going to solve this, I'm going to do it, and I'm going to like, do all this.
00:49:18:11 - 00:49:20:10
Mel
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:20:12 - 00:49:43:08
Filly
So you're happy to share. And, you know, we can go into like the trauma therapy and stuff as well. Like, what were the big things that made a big difference that got you out of your mental because you kind of, like, knew what you had to do. But in terms of the embodiment and actually clearing this baggage from the unconscious mind, how what made the biggest difference for you?
00:49:43:10 - 00:50:14:05
Mel
I think that's a really good point. What you just made there to is, you know, what you need to do. You just don't do it. Or you you, in theory, know what needs to be done, but you don't practically know how to actually apply it. And it's that embodiment piece. And I'm learning that more and more and more as I go, because I can talk about it and I can speak to it, but until you actually do it and experience it, you don't really get it and you don't really understand it.
00:50:14:07 - 00:50:34:16
Mel
And so the things that I was doing throughout this process was I was working with a business coach as well, and she's actually a psychologist. So that was like double bonus. Yeah. And a lot of the stuff that I was working through with her was just calling me out on my own shit. Really. Like just saying, is that true?
00:50:34:17 - 00:50:44:13
Mel
What else could that you know what else could be true? And really kind of holding me to account. And as a lot of times I wanted to absolutely punch her in the face and she knew that.
00:50:44:15 - 00:50:49:06
Filly
Experience that I was like, on the receiving end.
00:50:49:08 - 00:50:49:12
Mel
Are.
00:50:49:12 - 00:50:56:22
Mel
You very thankful for them holding this space and asking these questions within the time? It's like, just leave me alone. But you do.
00:50:56:22 - 00:51:00:23
Filly
Let me continue my dysfunctional patterns and pretend it's okay.
00:51:01:01 - 00:51:06:02
Mel
I like being angry and cranky at the world for the shit that I'm doing to myself. Like.
00:51:06:04 - 00:51:08:21
Mel
Let me. Yeah.
00:51:08:23 - 00:51:28:19
Mel
Yes. Playing the victim is very good. And she just wouldn't have it, which is great. But it would take me time to go and think about that and reflect on it and then come back and go, actually, you're right. This is what I need to do. So there's a lot of that going on. At the same time in addition to that, I also went to a retreat.
00:51:28:22 - 00:51:53:04
Mel
So I've been working with this lovely lady called Amber Hawk, and for about five years I've known Amber and she has a retreat called Alchemy Rites. And I've never wanted to go, like, I've been terrified, like absolutely shit scared of going to this retreat because people cry and they have big emotions, and I have all this stuff come up and I'm like, I'm not ready for that.
00:51:53:06 - 00:52:10:15
Mel
And then eventually it was actually when I started working with you, I actually said to her about a month later, right. I mean, so before I'd even done the lab test, I said to her, right, I'm coming. Yeah. I mean, let's do this. This is the year I'm fixing me. Yeah. Fixing me. I'm off. And so I booked in to go.
00:52:10:15 - 00:52:18:08
Mel
I was actually meant to go to her retreat in March, but unfortunately, she had some personal issues and had to postpone it. And it didn't happen until September. And I actually.
00:52:18:09 - 00:52:22:12
Filly
Probably worked out great timelines. It was. Yeah.
00:52:22:14 - 00:52:56:18
Mel
Like I would not have got the outcome from this collective experience. Yeah. If I had done it in March, because I hadn't done the work that had actually helped me uncover so much about myself through doing anybody burnout program. So one of the big things that came out for me during that, that was like this massive moment, was how much I will tiptoe around other people and make myself wrong, or go out of my way to keep them happy and comfortable.
00:52:56:20 - 00:52:58:02
Mel
I.
00:52:58:04 - 00:52:59:15
Mel
Will put.
00:52:59:20 - 00:53:20:19
Mel
Everyone else's kind of, emotions above my own. And I realised that what I was doing was I was taking responsibility for how everyone else felt. And it wasn't until we had some coaching sessions and and we talked it through and I went, actually, that's not my responsibility. Like, my responsibility is to make sure that I'm taking care of me.
00:53:20:19 - 00:53:44:12
Mel
And, you know, I'm not being a jerk and all the rest of it. But at the end of the day, like, if I can't do something and that person gets upset about it, that's their stuff, not my stuff. And so it was learning that. And so that was a really big kind of light bulb for me. And then changing that dynamic has been interesting because how people respond to that now.
00:53:44:12 - 00:53:45:08
Mel
Is you.
00:53:45:08 - 00:53:47:03
Filly
Cannot wants any problems to.
00:53:47:03 - 00:53:49:03
Mel
Solve any problems. And so,
00:53:49:05 - 00:53:59:09
Mel
So there was a lot of that stuff that kind of came up for me. And so by the time that I got to her retreat, like it was, there was a lot that had been unpacked and I felt open and receptive and ready.
00:53:59:11 - 00:53:59:18
Filly
Yeah.
00:53:59:18 - 00:54:31:04
Mel
And I was right. Her retreat is not for the faint hearted. So it it's intense. There's, like primal ritual. There's sweat lodges as breathwork. There's lots of deep, deep, uncomfortable conversations in a group setting. We there was 24 women there together having these conversations and as confronting and challenging as it was, it was deeply, deeply healing. And I left that retreat with this newfound capacity.
00:54:31:09 - 00:54:52:01
Mel
I felt like I had shifted so much stagnant energy and emotion and just baggage that I had been carrying for such a long time. I just got to let it go like it was gone. And I came home from that retreat, and I sat on my floor for two weeks and tried to make sense of the world and what was going on, and who I was and where I was going.
00:54:52:01 - 00:55:06:21
Mel
And what does this mean for me? And kind of had to, you know, who went? The lady that went to the retreat and the lady that came home at two very different people and had to kind of make new sense of the world. So that was that. And that was happening right in the middle of the TTP, therapy that we were doing as well.
00:55:06:21 - 00:55:07:11
Mel
So I think we.
00:55:07:11 - 00:55:08:15
Mel
Did the.
00:55:08:17 - 00:55:49:17
Mel
First one before I went. Yeah. And the next two and I got back and again, timing was absolutely perfect. So when I got back, we went in, we did the second two sessions and I think that was just that last little tipping point that I needed to kind of break that free and really kind of release everything that I had been carrying, like all of this emotional baggage and these stories that had shaped so much of me for so long, and the bit that really resonated for me and stuck out for me at the end of it, was the amount of internal capacity and vitality that I felt after this, and I remember scientists
00:55:49:17 - 00:56:02:06
Mel
and girlfriends is like, I always used to think that this pressure and this overwhelm and all of these demands and everything that was coming at me and just making me feel trapped and suffocated and like it was all just too hard, was coming from outside.
00:56:02:08 - 00:56:02:23
Mel
00:56:03:01 - 00:56:27:00
Mel
And it wasn't until I had cleared all of this through all of this work that I now had this capacity and this spaciousness and this is fullness in my life. And nothing outside of me had changed. Absolutely nothing. It was all inside, and it just made me realise how much room this stuff takes up without you actually knowing.
00:56:27:06 - 00:56:38:08
Mel
And both physically in your body and mentally in your head. Like it's just there, looping constantly. And until it was gone, I just then I had this yeah, I've got this newfound capacity, which is incredible.
00:56:38:10 - 00:56:57:18
Filly
I remember we had a conversation about that, and it might have been, it might have been before we started to heal that first session before you really, like, went in into the unconscious mind and, you know, in all the different modalities that you were doing to clear everything. But I remember saying to you, and I don't think you believed me.
00:56:57:20 - 00:57:36:00
Filly
I think you had hope. But I'm like, I promise that way. When when you have sufficiently rewired, let go of this baggage from the past and these stories and beliefs that, because we were talking about busyness and and the patterns and I said, look, you might you might not actually change anything in terms of like what you're actually doing as in and output, but you will change inside of yourself and you will feel relaxed and flow full and cruisy, and nothing outside of you might not need to change.
00:57:36:00 - 00:57:49:17
Filly
I mean, some things might need to change. And you were like, okay, well, when I experience that, I'll believe it. And then I remember like a couple of weeks later, you're like, I'm experiencing it now. This feels like magic, but it's real.
00:57:49:19 - 00:58:08:00
Mel
Yeah, yeah. No, I thought you were completely full of it. I thought, how is this even possible? Because. And, like, I think that's I was trying to say something earlier was around when I started this and I found out that I had, you know, adrenal fatigue and like, other things, I'm like, oh, great. Okay. So what does that mean my life needs to look like?
00:58:08:00 - 00:58:28:09
Mel
Do I need to, like, work less? Do I need to do this? And I tried to work my way out of burnout, which is hilarious now, but it was like, what do I need to do? What do I need to do to change? What do I need to do? This? And I started to writing all these things, and I went and found all these other people that had had burnout and what they did, and reached out to Allie and said, what?
00:58:28:10 - 00:58:31:23
Mel
What, what is it? And like, does this keep coming back? Like, do we get rid of it? Like, how do we how do.
00:58:31:23 - 00:58:35:13
Mel
We feel it it and it.
00:58:35:15 - 00:58:55:22
Mel
Was yeah. Like I just I didn't know what I needed to do to change, to make things better. And it wasn't only yeah, like, you've got to go through the process. And this is what I mean when I was saying that, you know, the thing, but you've got to actually embody it. You've got to experience it. And once you've experienced it, then you just have this deep knowing, like, you just know this stuff now.
00:58:56:00 - 00:58:56:09
Filly
Yeah.
00:58:56:10 - 00:59:24:16
Mel
And there was another piece of that puzzle that came through. We did the parts integration because I had this money. Well, fear of lack of money. I'd love more money. But this fear of lack of money. And it was like, well, I have to work because work equals money and money equals life. And that process was a real eye opener there, because the two parts that ended up showing up was one was this steamy kind of smoky thing that kind of kept flickering, and it was huge.
00:59:24:16 - 00:59:44:08
Mel
And the other thing was this swishy, watery, kind of floaty thing. Amy. Gigi. Yeah. And what they kind of ended up representing to me was the fire was, well, the smoke in the same as effectively that was my fire burning out like it was snuffing out. It was going from steam and smoke and there was no flame in it, like it was just this.
00:59:44:09 - 00:59:55:17
Mel
What, miss? Yeah. What, miss? And then the, the floaty stuff was this water and the wind, and it was this really kind of aethereal and light and happy and joy.
00:59:55:21 - 01:00:09:22
Mel
Woowoo and like, yay, Lexie's okay, we don't need to make money. Buy, do whatever you like. Can we meditate all day and like, that's not real.
01:00:09:22 - 01:00:26:19
Mel
And, when we bought the two together, I ended up with, a pond with a campfire sitting in it. And there were the, like, the wind swishing around and swags circling around the top. But it was like one of those cute little campfires that you see in the cartoons with, you know, like four sticks and a little, little flame on top of it.
01:00:26:21 - 01:01:03:17
Mel
So it was kind of bringing that back together and how that has continued to kind of show up and shape is that I've started to think about what finances look like in my business and how they flow and, you know, thinking about things far more cyclically. And I think that's been a real shame for me. In everything I do across the work I do in business, but also my life is thinking about things much more seasonally and cyclically, like we have really big months and quarters where we are doing a lot of work and lots of delivery, and then I would just keep going, like I would have to keep doing that.
01:01:03:17 - 01:01:14:17
Mel
And so, oh, I did that. Now that's the my new benchmark. I go to keep going because I don't know how many people you see on social media going, oh, I had $100,000 a month. You know, la la la, you can do this every month too. And it's like, at what cost?
01:01:14:18 - 01:01:15:03
Mel
Yeah.
01:01:15:07 - 01:01:36:20
Mel
And that was the question I started asking myself, at the end of last year was, yes, but at what cost? And starting to weigh things up and starting to look at success differently and redefining what success meant for me, and because there's a cost for everything, like you can do those hundred k months, but your body's going to burn out.
01:01:36:22 - 01:01:54:21
Mel
And so for me, it was about growing and accepting that, okay, well, we're going to have some big peak seasons where I'm going to be really busy. We're going to, you know, be bringing in lots of revenue. But then there has to be, I come down from that. There needs to be months where I can rest and recuperate, and the money's not going to be as high.
01:01:54:21 - 01:01:57:13
Mel
And to be looking at the business.
01:01:57:15 - 01:01:58:18
Mel
More.
01:01:58:20 - 01:02:15:14
Mel
Holistically over a longer period of time, rather than trying to meet these targets every month. Because, again, that was ingrained into me from previous companies. And you know, how we how you run a business, it's every month you have to make money. Yeah. So that all had to shift as well. And I mean, there's still some resistance there.
01:02:15:14 - 01:02:29:02
Mel
It comes up and it niggles at me and my oh no, you just have to go back in your box over there. It's okay. Like been in business for 12 years now. I know that there are ups and downs and goods and bads and you've just got to be able to ride the wave.
01:02:29:08 - 01:02:30:13
Mel
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:30:15 - 01:03:04:03
Filly
And and like connecting that back to the deep healing work that you did as well. So then therefore when you now know that you're significant regardless of how much money you have or don't have or how successful your business is or not. Oh, how like how well-behaved your children are or not. It actually makes it safe to like actually surrendering to the seasons and into this cyclical nature of whether it's like business and money or like parenting or whatever it is, because it's like, I'm I'm okay because I'm because I have my own back.
01:03:04:06 - 01:03:12:08
Filly
And I know that all will be fine. And being able to just relinquish yourself into that is so it's so freeing.
01:03:12:10 - 01:03:29:05
Mel
It is. And it's I'm not saying it's easy. Like I still have to kind of script that to myself and tell myself that. And I've got some little, you know, prompts now that remind me that it's okay because you can get into that downward spiral really quickly. You know, you've been doing this for 40 plus years now.
01:03:29:05 - 01:03:42:01
Mel
Like, it's that's what my brain tells me is that it has to be this way. So it's kind of. Yeah, it's I know differently now and I can choose differently. And that's what I keep reminding myself.
01:03:42:03 - 01:04:00:17
Filly
Yeah. And that's kind of the difference too. So, I can't remember who said this, but you can't control the birds flying around your head, but you can control if they're nesting in it. And that can be the same with, like, old thought patterns or. Yeah, like patterns from the past that, you know what? They probably will pop up, way less intensely then.
01:04:00:17 - 01:04:15:03
Filly
And with less frequency after you've done the work and you continue communicating with yourself. But then it's like it's just strengthening the new neural pathways every time they pop up. Do you let them nest, or do you just allow them to fly off again?
01:04:15:05 - 01:04:17:08
Mel
Yeah, that's a really nice analogy. I like that one.
01:04:17:08 - 01:04:20:14
Mel
Thank you. Thank you.
01:04:20:16 - 01:04:47:14
Filly
Okay, so just circling full circle back to me. And as you were talking about business and finances, how does how does it look different for you life and also your business and your profession, because you are embodying everything that you have learnt? And as a natural, like the proof is always in the pudding when someone truly embodies, it's going to ripple out into other areas of their life.
01:04:47:16 - 01:04:51:15
Filly
So how does how does business look like for you now?
01:04:51:17 - 01:05:23:02
Mel
Business looks great. So we were able to start reconfiguring our business. So for the last sort of three, four years, I have been had this dream of how I wanted my business to look. And towards the end of last year, we finally kind of crafted community. So communities, the workplace strategy, design studio, change leadership. And we had previously been doing a lot of like the design, the documentation, the delivery pace, which is like the hands on actually doing the work and kind of building the thing.
01:05:23:04 - 01:05:57:01
Mel
But that's not a place that really locks my fire anymore. I'm really much more about the strategy and helping the business move forward and creating the space for the people and thinking about it in a bigger picture and coming up with this brand alignment and like there's all of these moving parts in that. But I also wanted to stay involved across that delivery process, because this critical decision to get made through that process and I can get made really easily without understanding the knock on effect and the implications of what that might have in terms of, the strategy and how that can change things.
01:05:57:03 - 01:06:16:19
Mel
And then also being really involved in onboarding people, because historically, we build an office to figure out who's the key leader, and people just move in and you know, they do their thing. But with the way that workplaces are shifting, and particularly with hybrid work and, you know, remote workforces, there's a real shift in behaviour that needs to come with it.
01:06:16:21 - 01:06:36:04
Mel
And for these workplaces to perform at their optimum level, we need to be educating and training people on how to use the space, but also on how to work differently. And so a lot of that is them understanding and getting comfortable with change. And what does change look like, and what's the neuroscience of change? And how am I going to react to it and has my team going to react to it?
01:06:36:04 - 01:07:04:18
Mel
And what can we do as leaders to support people through this? And that's the stuff that absolutely lights my fire. And so by the end of last year, we had been able to build that business wave, delivered a number of projects to different clients under that exact model. And it's just been magic. So the business finally landed where it wanted, and it was actually when I was at the retreat with, at Amber, I said to, hey, you know how we mapped out this, business plan years ago like it happened?
01:07:05:00 - 01:07:14:20
Mel
The only bit that hasn't happened is the business coaching. And she said to me, you need capacity to be able to hold space for other people. And that's all she said. And she walked away a lot.
01:07:14:22 - 01:07:16:06
Filly
Right. Thank you.
01:07:16:08 - 01:07:40:09
Mel
That made sense. And so it was at the end of the retreat, I went, I've got this capacity now. Like, it's, I've, I literally can feel this space now. And I've gone on and I'm doing my meditation practitioner training, which is actually more about looking at how we store and hold trauma in the body and how through presence and contact and meditation, we can help shift and release that.
01:07:40:09 - 01:08:18:17
Mel
So journeys all sort of tying back beautifully there together. And so as we've sort of come into 2025, I've ramped up my business coaching side of the business again. So we've done a business planning day in January where 12 beautiful women came and we did a full strategic planning day, and that was all integrated with meditation. And I did, just heart centred and, so energy centred, connected meditation, visualisation to really get them to feel that fire in the belly again and to reconnect with that passion that they had for their business and bring that to life.
01:08:18:17 - 01:08:52:05
Mel
And that's what they did, the intention and goal setting from through that day. And yeah, doing more 1 to 1 coaching other amazing business women, VIP days. I've, launched Brunch Club, which is cool. So it's just a casual networking group for women, to come together once a month and, yeah, you know, connect. But the big one is, hosting a retreat in October, which I'm like, so excited about because this retreat has been on the vision board for years, but I literally just haven't had the capacity.
01:08:52:05 - 01:09:06:21
Mel
And I pulled out my original, like I do, like little manifestation scripting of what I want it to look like. And I found it the other day when I was going through my strategy stuff. And I've literally it is exactly what's happening. The only thing is there is no one. So the retreat.
01:09:06:21 - 01:09:09:06
Filly
Is I feel free, not like it.
01:09:09:08 - 01:09:12:21
Mel
Whereas before that was wine around the campfire. We're not having wine now, but.
01:09:13:00 - 01:09:18:09
Mel
I can butcher. Yeah I mean okay or something I. Yeah. So I'm.
01:09:18:09 - 01:09:20:05
Filly
Ready. Okay.
01:09:20:06 - 01:09:22:10
Mel
So it's, Yeah, it's really cool.
01:09:22:10 - 01:09:26:18
Filly
And and is that targeted it for business women.
01:09:26:19 - 01:09:27:07
Mel
Or.
01:09:27:12 - 01:09:54:12
Mel
Business women. And the intention behind that was that I want to to create a space where women who I was seeing in my corporate life, my friends, my colleagues, my clients who I see all those warning signs in them now that I was experiencing, like they're just on the verge of having a meltdown or they're just overwhelmed, or they're trying to juggle all the things, or, you know, the kids aren't sleeping or you know, that they're running a business.
01:09:54:12 - 01:10:23:17
Mel
And, you know, the stretched. And I just wanted to create a space where they could have just a taste of some of the things that I have experienced and that have made a massive difference to me and where I'm at. And so that's pretty much what this retreat is. It's a melting pot of all that. So we've got meditation, we've got sound healing, we've got yoga, we've got women's wellness conversations where we're going to be talking about the seasons and cycles of life.
01:10:23:19 - 01:10:46:23
Mel
Perimenopause, adrenal fatigue. The foods are going to be this beautiful, nourishing, food. That's all, you know, complimentary to your adrenal diet. So that we're taking that load off people system and really just giving them a space to relax and let go. And AMP is coming and she's doing a breathwork session for us. So you'll get a little bit of her intensity.
01:10:47:01 - 01:11:27:03
Mel
But just helping you shift some of that, that stagnant, energy and those emotions of the stock. But the big part about it is I want people to reconnect with themselves. So that was the biggest thing I had realised is I had completely lost touch with myself. I had completely started to ignore my own intuition. I didn't trust myself, I didn't listen to myself and I, I want I see that in other women and I would love them to kind of reconnect with themselves and, you know, reconnect with that intuition and start to listen to themselves in their bodies and give them a pathway that can then help them take action.
01:11:27:05 - 01:11:43:06
Mel
So another big part of what we'll be doing at the retreat is looking at, well, what do I actually want my ideal life to look like? You know, if and if I want that life, what do I need to do to make that possible? So I'm doing that. But we're doing it in this beautiful place in the Tweed Valley.
01:11:43:09 - 01:11:54:00
Mel
So nature, immersion, reconnection with nature and just lots of time to ponder and experience and sit and relax and rest and exhale.
01:11:54:02 - 01:11:55:18
Mel
I love it so great.
01:11:55:18 - 01:12:01:09
Filly
I'll make sure I pop it in the show notes. So good. I think you've just got to wait list page at the moment.
01:12:01:09 - 01:12:07:20
Mel
The waiting list open at the moment, but might be long and the the sales page will be up, so you'll be able to start to come and join me.
01:12:07:22 - 01:12:08:22
Mel
What's going on?
01:12:09:00 - 01:12:13:21
Chris
That's beautiful. Your message is your message now, isn't it?
01:12:13:23 - 01:12:15:15
Mel
Yes, I love that. Yes.
01:12:15:17 - 01:12:37:23
Chris
It's, I love both of those words. Mass and age. So age is like the process. It's like how how many laps around the sun have you taken? So your evolution as a as a person, as a human, as a woman has, you know, transcended above what you were in the past. Your mess, plus your wisdom that you've gained is your message.
01:12:38:01 - 01:12:39:07
Chris
Yeah.
01:12:39:09 - 01:12:41:15
Mel
I love that. I'm going to see a lot to thank God for.
01:12:41:15 - 01:12:45:00
Chris
I got it from my hand. Bullet to you.
01:12:45:02 - 01:12:58:12
Filly
Oh thank you so much Mel. This is just been so beautiful. Last question to end off if there's anyone listening and they maybe felt like you did overwhelmed stuck I don't.
01:12:58:12 - 01:12:59:18
Mel
Anywhere else to go.
01:12:59:18 - 01:13:06:05
Filly
Or even if it's possible for me, what words of advice would you give them?
01:13:06:07 - 01:13:08:06
Mel
Start.
01:13:08:07 - 01:13:36:10
Mel
The first process is doing that connect the dots, because once I did that, I then had a direction like before that I was just spinning my wheels and going in circles and had, you know, sought out doctors. And I'd been saying an excellent acupuncturist and everything, but it was just not it wasn't a holistic enough approach. And I think just doing that first initial connect the dots, has made the world of difference for me.
01:13:36:12 - 01:13:57:11
Mel
The other thing I would say is trust the process and follow the course. I know a few people who have done the connect the dots, but haven't gone through the program and I feel for them because I know that they're not getting they're not getting the like, they're just going, I did that, took the thing, and off I went again.
01:13:57:11 - 01:14:00:16
Mel
And it's like, yeah. And as you got to dig.
01:14:00:18 - 01:14:01:12
Mel
You go to things.
01:14:01:12 - 01:14:04:03
Filly
Will come back.
01:14:04:05 - 01:14:04:16
Mel
They will.
01:14:04:22 - 01:14:15:12
Mel
And yeah. And it's like even I'm speaking to another person like doesn't mean in the course or anything. But she's like, oh yeah, no, I've got all of that stuff, you know, locked in a suitcase, put in the basement. It's like down.
01:14:15:12 - 01:14:20:04
Mel
There and I went, see how long that stays there.
01:14:20:06 - 01:14:21:23
Filly
The body will speak.
01:14:22:01 - 01:14:40:06
Mel
Yes. Oh, because I have a theory. I'll share my theory with you. Is it? I believe that women in their 40s have just been smothering this stuff for so long, that it gets to a point where it can no longer be smothered, and it erupts, and it erupts in a brilliant fashion. And you just can't ignore it.
01:14:40:11 - 01:15:05:11
Filly
Yeah, we see that too. I'd actually say most of our clients, like both men and women, 40s and then sometimes 50s, 60s. And it's just like, I am like, so ready to let this go now. But it's also perimenopause. So it's, you know, stress, which is like especially all this stuff that you repress is going to affect your nervous system, which then affects your adrenals, which then affects your female hormones.
01:15:05:13 - 01:15:28:05
Filly
And so even if you've gone along okay, in terms of hormones in the past, or even if not, things are going to like be disrupted when your hormones start to drop off. And that's often where these deeper unconscious baggage staff is like, we, yeah, it's really like this unheard part of you is finally ready to scream and to be heard.
01:15:28:07 - 01:15:39:10
Mel
Yeah, no, I agree with that. So I think it's just that. And so the retreats very much focussed at those lovely women in their 40s who are starting to see this stuff. Yeah, not really knowing what to do with it.
01:15:39:10 - 01:15:42:20
Mel
Yeah. So awesome. Thank you.
01:15:42:22 - 01:16:00:02
Filly
I just love your energy. And as I said before, like I do, I just my experience of you completely different woman compared to a year ago. And it's just it's so beautiful that everything that you have embodied is rippling out to helping other people as well.
01:16:00:04 - 01:16:16:15
Mel
Thanks, guys. So now I look, I have to say thank you to you guys, because this person here would not be here if it hadn't been for, you know, the opportunity to find you and work with you and going through the process as well. Like it just this would not be possible. So you're a big part of that journey as well.
01:16:16:15 - 01:16:18:03
Mel
So yeah. Thank you, thank you.
01:16:18:03 - 01:16:20:15
Mel
Really thank you. I'll thank you.
01:16:20:17 - 01:16:25:02
Chris
Alrighty. Well thanks everybody for joining us. And we'll catch you on the next one.
01:16:25:04 - 01:16:29:13
Mel
Thanks, guys.
01:16:29:15 - 01:16:39:17
Filly
Thank you so much for listening. We so appreciate you. If you'd like to give us extra smiles, drop us a review and spread the love by sharing this episode.
01:16:39:19 - 01:16:58:02
Chris
You can also write your own state of burnout and the root cause contributors by taking our Ending Body Burnout assessment on our website. And if you're interested in learning about our group or one on one ending body burnout programs, shoot us a DM via Instagram or Facebook. Hey, have the best day ever!
